Hello GeoHipster fans, cartographers, and map geeks around the world! While we’ve put out teasers over the last few weeks, today we’re making it official: we’ve set a deadline of October 25 for you to submit your map for the 2020 GeoHipster Calendar. We’re trying to move a bit quicker this year so we can have the calendar ready to order for Black Friday. But 10/25 is over a month away, so we know you’re all going to get us some amazing maps to consider!
David Haynes II is an Assistant Professor with the Institute for Health Informatics at University of Minnesota-Twin Cities, and a health geographer who uses cutting-edge spatial analysis methods to advance knowledge of health and cancer disparities.
David was interviewed for GeoHipster by Mike Dolbow.
Q: You got your undergrad degree in Biology, then a Master’s in GIS shortly after. I’ve met people who have taken all kinds of different roads to discover GIS, but I think a biology degree is a new one. So tell our readers, how did you get started in geospatial?
A: I went to a small liberal arts college in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, (Coe College). When I originally went to school I thought I was going to be a medical doctor, so I took a lot of biology courses. I was generally interested in human and environmental biology. It was in an environmental biology course that a professor offered me a summer research position. She had heard that I was good with computers and needed some help analyzing GPS locations. That was my first real experience with “GIS and Geography”. We were running Arc 3.1 and I started playing with AML / Avenue. It was a very cool experience and led to me going to St. Mary’s in Winona, MN for my master’s in GIS.
Q: You and I crossed paths by working with some mutual colleagues in the Health disciplines. We both know that where someone lives, commutes, and works can have huge impacts on their health, but sometimes I’ve found the area to be relatively slow to adopt spatial technologies. Have you found the same, and if so, do you feel like you’re constantly selling the business case?
A: So the medical field like every field goes in waves. 20+ years ago there was the idea of the environment being a factor for causing negative health outcomes. However, GIS was just at its beginning for the broader community and much of that literature showed that the scale of analysis was critical for determining that. So health went away from that to personal behaviors and thinking that was the main cause. We are at a point now, we know that if we control for many of these personal demographic characteristics (age, race, sex), we still see large gaps or disparities. We hypothesize that the environment could explain the disparities. However, the environment now needs to be more specifically defined which is causing a headache for everyone. Most researchers approach this from the traditional epi point of view and try to add spatial on at the end. So I spend much of my time on studies that want to add spatial to them. Not many studies start with spatial as the primary focus.
Q: It does seem like the field of ‘health geography’ is growing. Can you tell us what it’s like, in your experience?
A: Yes, I think the ability to use smart devices is going to make Geography extremely important in designing interventions. I am thinking of designing a study for smoking cessation that would send you SMS notifications if you are in a business that sells tobacco.
Q: How would you describe “health geo-informatics”? Is this just another way to say spatial (or GIS)?
A: Yeah, pretty much. I think my focus is to make health spatial and to integrate more sophisticated spatial analyses that most researchers wouldn’t.
Q: You were once a rugby player. I don’t know much about the sport, but it appears to me to be a lot like soccer and American football: where an awareness of space, angles, and boundaries is an advantage. Did you ever think of it like that? Ever map your games?
A: Funny, Yes. I want to teach a class one day call the “Geography of Sport”. Actually all sports are about Geography. You have a limited defined extent in which you have to operate. In many classic team sports (i.e., football, basketball, hockey, etc.), the goal for the defense is to limit the space and time for different players. If a QB is throwing the football they need time and the receivers make the pass easier by creating distance between themselves and the defenders. Staying with football, every defense seeks to limit potential areas of the field while leaving other areas open. The offense tries to exploit these areas. I could go on all day about this as I really enjoy watching sports from a geographic perspective. One last thing, this is why the prevent defense in football gets no credit. The prevent defense is to prevent a touchdown on the hail mary pass not prevent the Tom Brady 5-10 yard passes. Defensive Coordinators need to develop new defenses that use a mixture of man to man with zone to be more effective in the 2 minutes offense.
Q: In Minnesota, we have a saying that there are only two seasons: winter, and construction. But you’re into aquaponics and sustainable gardening. Isn’t there a gardening analogy to that, like, “weeding and canning”?
A: Yeah, aquaponics is a labor of annoyance. It always starts out great and then something breaks two weeks later. But mostly I’m dreaming farmer. I read the book “5 Acres & a Dream” and was hooked. One day, that’s what I want to do. I’d be more of a hobby farmer in the day and do some serious programming at night.
Q: What do you think of some of the indoor, urban, industrial agriculture systems that are cropping up, sometimes as CSAs? Given the rising environmental costs of shipping, and unpredictable climate we’re facing, this seems to me like something we need to invest in more as a society. But can aquaponics really save the world?
A: Realistically, I think it’s a part of the solution. It won’t save the world, but it would improve some things like the food supply chain. Every year there are 10 e-coli outbreaks related to vegetables. This isn’t going to change. But this might be an area where aquaponics could help. I have grand ideas of how aquaponics could be used to provide benefits to society. Mostly, I do it to help my kids understand where food comes from and what waste is. I like aquaponics because it recycles the water and is kind of a closed-loop system, although I feed the fish. But I think getting people familiar with the idea of how an ideal nature system could operate would help us. It is an opportunity to learn more about ecosystems and how plants, animals, and people can all interact in a sustainable way.
Q: I’m not sure how much you know about GeoHipster, but you’re a big PostGIS user in a nascent field – which makes you different than a lot of people I know, but more like some of the “geohipsters” I’ve met. So what do you think, might you be a geohipster?
A: After re-reading your definition, I would definitely be a geohipster. Geography and using GIS in the broader health world isn’t new, but it is really in demand right now and this trend will likely continue for at least 5-10 years. I’d also say, like many of the geohipsters you have interviewed that I am a big advocate for spatial and try to help people understand why spatial is important.
I’d say I’m a big spatial database advocate. I tend to use a variety of tools that fit the need of the project. Which I think is the mantra of your GeoHipster definition poll. I think industries and the medical world tend to be OK with the installation of a validated commercial software. However, that can take weeks or months. They always seem to have a database around and if you can move data into that they seem to roll with it. Databases just seem safe. Plus I think the ability to scale analyses out in databases is easier than programming. But you need to know how to program if you’re working with big data.
Q: You’ve got a year or more of teaching under your belt. What career advice would you give to your students – or to our readers?
A: If you are into Geography that is great, and if you are just coming into GIS I feel sorry and excited for you. The GIS field is really changing, which can be daunting at first. When I came into Geography there was a general feeling that you could learn ArcGIS and get a job. You could learn a second proprietary software and be set for life. Programming was something you could do, but wasn’t necessary. That has all changed for me and any future students.
Google Maps, MapBox, OpenStreet Map, Uber, Lyft. etc have all changed this. We are truly embracing the big data and computational science revolution. This means that you need to have mid-level understanding of computer science. You need to know how to program in an Object Oriented Language for either front end or back end. I would tend to recommend students or new people to the field to learn the back-end over the front-end. Because there are a million web designers out there that can make a map better than you. They won’t know what they are doing. They won’t know what a coordinate system is and how it matters, but they can stick it together fast. The benefit of the back-end is that you will be viable forever if you apply your spatial analysis skill within a programming framework. Be flexible and adaptable to the programming platform. I write code in R, Python, SQL (PostGIS) and Scala. Some language may be your favorite, but keep your eyes open. One resource, I’ll point people to is Packt. They have a lot of good books that I’ve purchased online.
Chris Whong is an NYC-based civic hacker, urbanist, mapmaker, and data junkie. He most recently worked as the founder and director of NYC Planning Labs, promoting the use of agile methods, human-centered design, and open technology to build impactful tools at the NYC Department of City Planning. He’s perpetually tinkering with open source geospatial technology, open data, and web projects, sharing his work via tweets, blog posts and speaking events. He teaches graduate level technology courses for Urban Planners at NYU’s Wagner School of Public Service, promoting the use of open source tools for mapping, data analysis, and visualization.
Chris was interviewed for GeoHipster by Mike Dolbow.
Q: Whong’s law states that “Every government agency, everywhere is working on a ‘new system’; It will solve all of their data problems and will be ready to use in 18-24 months.” My 20+ years in government have taught me that you’re 100% right on this, and I can’t believe I didn’t think of it myself. Please tell me this will be the subject of your first TED talk.
A: I actually came up with this a few years ago when I was in sales, and was speaking to different state and local governments several times a week. There was always a huge amount of faith everyone had that the “new system” would solve all of their data woes in the near future, but it never seemed to actually arrive. I’d love to do more research on this front, as every government technologist I’ve encountered has some version of this story for “new systems” large and small.
Q: Even after all the gigantic government IT failures, I still can’t believe how many ginormous contracts I see being awarded. (Despite their past success, I’m still looking at this $26 million award with side eye.) But they can’t all be failures, right? Maybe just the billion dollar ones?
A: I think the ones you hear about are the BIG ones… there are probably hundreds of little ones that are just as bad but not big enough to show up on anyone’s radar. There has been some reporting recently in NYC about ballooning construction costs for what should be simple projects like park restrooms. I think you’ll find a lot of the same incentives and poor practices at play in both construction and IT projects. My hunch is that it’s the bigness of NYC that allows for these kinds of things to slip through the cracks. A $14M bathroom is peanuts in a $11B capital budget… and you can’t really inspect that budget unless you’re willing to slog through hundreds of pages of screen printouts published as a PDF.
Q: You recently left your post at NYC Planning Labs. What was your favorite project to work on in that job?
A: That would be ZAP Search. It’s a frontend search tool for looking up information on land use applications in NYC. Basically, anyone who wants to change zoning (including the city) has to go through a governmental process, and there’s an information system that tracks each action. I love this project because we were able to seamlessly integrate spatial data into a non-spatial database. You and I know it’s just a simple join to add geometries to a row in a table, but this has eluded everyone and been a huge excuse for years. In government, spatial is still the realm of “GIS people”, who tend to not be the same thing as app developers.
When you’re dealing with a city that’s the size of New York, the map becomes a critical part of the search UI for making individual projects discoverable. Adding geometries and displaying them on a map goes a long way towards making the data instantly relatable to people. Nobody knows obscure project names or even addresses of things being built near them, but everyone knows where they live and can relate to things happening nearby.
I should add that the GeoSearch API comes in at a close second. (GeoSearch is the autocomplete geocoder API that powers address search in all of our apps) We didn’t even build it, the heavy lift for us was transforming the city’s official address database into a format that would work with the Open Source Pelias geocoder built at Mapzen. It’s a wonderful open source story, and I like to think a contract to build a highly-available autocomplete geocoder in government would have taken years and millions of dollars. We did it in a few weeks, basically for free, by leveraging open source. We also made it publicly available and wrote a nice little documentation site to help people get started using it.
Q: Can you tell us what’s coming next for you? And whether or not you’ll need to add a corollary to Whong’s law?
A: I’m planning to write a book about my 3-year stint in local government (but I know I’ll just get consumed with side projects during my time off!) I want it to be a relatable easy read full of anecdotes and things I’ve learned being a solo open source developer and building a small (but highly effective) digital team. I’ve accepted a position at Qri (qri.io), an open source startup building technology for distributed data collaboration, discovery, and version control. It touches on a lot of the pain points I’ve experienced working with, publishing, and sharing data over the years. I’ll be exploring use cases, building tooling around the core platform, and trying to grow the Qri user community.
Q: Do you think every government organization needs “an 18F” to show the way towards better IT, better user experiences, better designs in government apps?
A: Yes, and it’s important to remember that the culture change is the most important thing these teams bring. The tech tooling is just a fraction of the overall environment. Openness, collaboration, good design practices, continuous learning, introspection/retrospection, sharing, focusing on the user, iterating and shipping code continuously, etc. are what lead to better products. These things require culture change way beyond just saying “use open source software”.
I’ve also described all of the above characteristics as values that are at odds with the way government is usually structured when it comes to tech delivery.
It’s important to think about the long-term sustainability of these progressive values. How do you get them out of the 18F-style team and into the regular standing operating procedure of an agency? How to you make the myriad controls and requirements codified into tech policy support this new way of working? These are things I didn’t stick around NYC Planning Labs long enough to tackle, but they remain issues that my former colleagues are faced with every day.
Q: Have you always been a New Yorker? What do you like – or dislike – about the city?
A: I came here in 2011 to study Urban Planning at NYU. Someone once told me that it takes 7 years to finally call yourself a New Yorker, so I guess I’ve passed that milestone. I always say that once I started getting involved in civic tech, I began bumping into the same people at meetups and events all over the city, and found “my scene”. After that, the big, busy, hectic city got a lot smaller and really felt more like home.
I love that there is so much opportunity here. Whatever you’re interested in, the best and brightest people on the planet who do that thing are either already here or will be passing through regularly. There’s always a meetup or conference, there’s always someone who wants to grab a coffee or a drink, and there’s always someone who knows someone who wants to chat about their bold idea or passion project.
Q: I’m an old school jQuery guy. But I know you’re more impressed with the modern frameworks. What’s your preference and why?
A: My lead developer and I had a healthy React vs Ember debate when I first stood up Planning Labs, and he won because he had better arguments for why Ember was a better fit for a small scrappy team. It’s opinionated, but it brings everything you need for building single-page apps so you can prototype quickly and not have to worry about the myriad parts of the app architecture you would if you were assembling things from scratch. I am still a fan of React, if only because I don’t have to have 3 files open to manage the same component, and I actually like JSX (don’t hate, congratulate!). I was able to squeeze a little React into our portfolio via gatsby.js, the static site generator that powers planninglabs.nyc. Everything else is made with Ember, which we’ve built some powerful mapping integrations with and has served us well.
Q: As a former Carto employee, your GeoHipster cred is already well established, as far as I’m concerned. Now’s your chance to embrace the label, or provide evidence to the contrary.
A: I’m proud of the progressive spatial stack we put together at Planning Labs. We were pulling vector tiles out of the carto maps API before they were officially released (you know, “before it was cool”), and figured out how to consume them with MapboxGL. We even got to play with the new PostGIS ST_AsMVT() function to produce vector tile protobufs right from the database. We pioneered print-friendly web map layouts using paper.css, and even got to automate print map creation for New York Land Use Applications, effectively building GIS on the web with automated data and a custom UI. So yeah, I’m a geohipster and proud! I’m bummed to miss JSGeo this year 🙁
Q: As a geographer, does it bug you that so many “New York” teams actually play in New Jersey?
A: I care so little about professional sports that I didn’t even know New York teams play in New Jersey. I didn’t care before and I still don’t care.
Q: What are the merits of a saltwater reef aquarium, and do you provide treasure maps to the inhabitants?
A: A reef tank was something I really wanted to do back in 2010, but I was about to move to NYC and it wasn’t a good time to start the hobby. My wife finally gave permission last year and I’ve been obsessive over starting up the tank. We’ve got a nice 34-gallon reef set up in our apartment with a few fish, some corals, a shrimp, and a crab. It’s high-maintenance, and requires a lot of water production, saltwater mixing, water chemistry testing, cleaning, etc. The payout is worth it, my kid loves to help with feeding and water changes, and the critters all have their own little habits and personalities. The tank is a big stress-reliever, and it’s just fun to nurture a little ecosystem and look to the community for advice and support. I have not integrated mapping or open source technology or into my fish tank yet.
Q: I’m sure our readers in between jobs, or considering a change, would appreciate any final words of wisdom.
A: We were successful at Planning Labs because I refused to compromise on the really important things. I always said “how we build is as important as what we build”, and that meant not doing things the way government IT is comfortable doing them. We still had lots of government cruft in our way over the years, but the basics of modern technology-building were not up for debate, and that made all the difference. By the way, sharing is a BIG part of what I consider to be part of the basics, and is probably our most progressive trait. Half the fun of working on something is sharing the achievements and lessons learned (and the finished product) with others in your community. In my experience, talking openly about what you are working on in government is either discouraged or flat out forbidden.
In summary, figure out what your values are, and apply them to every decision, every project, etc. If your personal values don’t align with your organization’s you will need to fight, defend, and evangelize them at every turn (or go find another organization whose values match yours). The former is preferable if you’re in public service.
Euan Cameron is responsible for Developer Technology at Esri and views a well-designed API as valuable as any work of art. Euan has worked in the geospatial software industry for over 30 years and continues have fun innovating with aps and technology. Euan and his wife Julie are outdoor enthusiasts and can often be found in the Sierra Nevada Mountains climbing, skiing, or hiking.
Q: You’ve had an interesting career and it seems like you’ve got a pretty sweet gig right now. Tell us how it all started.
A: I grew up in Perth, Scotland and from an early age I was always fascinated by maps; they are able to convey so much information in an amazingly efficient way. The Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 series were and still are beautiful, and I used to pore over these maps sheets for the highlands of Scotland imagining what it must be like to be in the middle of somewhere with no roads, no buildings, no people for miles around – a sea of contours. The love of maps and particularly the maps of the highlands of Scotland got me into hiking, skiing and then climbing. My favorite subjects at school were geography and mathematics and along with the love of the outdoors land surveying was an obvious career choice. I studied Survey and Mapping Sciences in London. Things don’t always turn out the way you plan them, and as it turned out, I was more interested in rock climbing than surveying. After climbing around Europe for a while the realization that money was in fact required for many things meant something had to change, and I ended up taking a job as a land surveyor.
I don’t like inefficiency, so I taught myself programming and C++ so that I could automate all the tedious calculations that surveyors perform. I was soon working more as a developer than a surveyor which led me down a road to GIS software development which is the perfect combination of my childhood curiosity to understand the landscape around us with the need to do it efficiently.
After finishing a degree that combined GIS and software engineering I started work with Laser Scan in Cambridge England. There I worked with some great people as we built cutting edge object-oriented spatial database technology and the GIS applications that consumed it. We (my wife Julie and I) moved to the US to join Esri 20 years ago. I joined in the early days of ArcGIS (called ARC/INFO 8 back then) and have been working on the project ever since.
Q: Were you in your current role when the ArcGIS Server REST API was released? If so, I’d like to know more about how that came to be. Was it a conscious choice to create such a developer-focused product?
A: My role at Esri has always been working on the developer technology, initially this was with ArcObjects technology, but it has evolved into my current role. The story of how our ArcGIS Server REST API came to be isn’t that different from other great things in software. A couple of developers having an idea. There wasn’t a master plan, just some hardworking developers with a vision and who, like many in the industry, thought there must be something better than SOAP-based services. Not everyone thought it was a great idea at the time, but it didn’t take long before it was obvious that it was the future.
Q: Although it was a bit ugly, ArcIMS was successful and widely adopted. In contrast, the first framework out of ArcGIS Server, the Web ADF, was pretty crummy out of the gate (in my opinion). But the REST API is/was awesome, and allowed all kinds of integrations that weren’t possible before its release. Did you know that you had “a hit” on your hands?
A: As I said before it didn’t take long before everyone understood what this meant for how we built the ArcGIS system and in turn how our developer community would be able to build on top of it.
Q: What are your thoughts on the debate over the REST API as an OGC standard? Was it worth going through that wringer?
A: Getting standards through the process is always challenging, we felt it was a good idea to offer it up as a standard. Standards are needed as we build out systems of increasing complexity and interdependency, personally I think if the REST API was a standard it would have made for a better world. The recent work by the OGC on their community standards is a good compromise for this sort of thing. It allows for industry leaders to develop innovative technologies but still do it in an open way where others can benefit.
Q: Do you think the REST API will ever be more popular than the shapefile? Both are foundational to a lot of open data efforts such as OpenAddresses, but the latter has its own Twitter account.
A: There is only one way to find that out and that would be to interview the REST API, I’m sure there would be a few choice quotes, and after all it isn’t fair to give shapefile all the limelight.
A: Wouldn’t life be much simpler if we only had to think about one technology! The truth is having all these APIs is a huge investment, but it is something our developers require as they build out their solutions. Developers get to choose the best technology for the problem they are solving knowing there is an API that they can use when they work with ArcGIS. As an example, take the ArcGIS Runtime technology for building native applications. We have 6 APIs, 3 of which support cross-platform development running on 6 platforms. The APIs are used to build apps ranging in use from mission-critical to consumer games. Developers choose technology sometimes because it is their preferred environment, sometimes because the system they are integrating with, and sometimes because it’s cool. At Esri we try not to pick favorites.
Q: What is the future of desktop GIS? Do you think ArcGIS Pro leverages APIs effectively?
A: I think it does. ArcMap as you know is built using the ArcObjects API. The story 20 years ago was a great one – you use the same APIs to build on top of ArcMap that we use to build it. Very powerful, but unfortunately also very restrictive as we evolved the architecture. Nothing could be dropped in case developers were relying on it, so we kept adding which kept the power but added complexity. The ArcGIS Pro API is different. The API is specifically designed for customizers and extenders. The internals of ArcGIS Pro are based on a new services-based architecture that decouples the UX from the underlying data tier, allowing for a responsive UX and powerful data processing. Time will tell.
Q: Like many of our other interviewees, you’re an “outdoor type”. When you’re hiking or skiing, do you bring your geo tools – or your geo mindset – along for the ride? Or do you need to take a break from work when you’re in the great outdoors?
A: It is great to get away from it all and there is no better place than the Sierra Nevada Mountains. In the mountains I like to keep the geo tools simple and only take the basics: a map and compass. In Scotland there were many days spent enveloped in cloud and without basic navigation skills you could get into real trouble, so it’s something I learned how to use early on.
Q: We’re not quite sure if you’d call yourself a geohipster. On the one hand, you work for Esri (points deducted). On the other, you’ve taught yourself to code merely to reduce inefficiency (points added). Knowing that we’re sending you a t-shirt or mug either way, want to give us a ruling?
A: Honestly, I don’t like labels, titles, etc. they only help give people preconceived notions of who you are and what to expect. Over the years it’s obvious to me that it is your actions that count, your readers can decide.
Q: Any final words of wisdom for our readers?
A: Be true to yourself, work hard and make a difference, because the world needs people like you who understand how to make the world a better place.
Ian Dees is making it easier for people to find and use all sorts of geodata. He is a member of the OpenStreetMap US board, founder of OpenAddresses and All The Places, and is always looking for new data to explore and share.
Ian was interviewed for GeoHipster by Mike Dolbow, about a month before the announcement that Mapzen is shutting down operations. We at GeoHipster wish everyone from the Mapzen team the best of luck in finding their next adventures. –Ed
Q: You’re part of a team at Mapzen. Tell us how you got started with them.
I joined Mapzen because I was excited to focus on maps and map data as part of my day job. I was also excited to work with the team at Mapzen, who have built some great services based on the data that I’ve enjoyed building for the last decade of my life. I ended up on the Tiles team working on the map data that makes up the Tilezen service but I also spent time working on other data systems like Terrain Tiles, All the Places, and OpenAddresses.
Q: What are some cool projects you’ve been working on lately?
I’ve been working with Seth Fitzsimmons on updating Mapzen’s Terrain Tiles dataset for the last few months and we finally got it out the door earlier this month. I enjoyed updating the Terrain Tiles using newer AWS products like Batch that allowed me to spin up tens of thousands of CPUs to regenerate every tile in the world using newer and higher resolution elevation data. It was quite a thrill playing around with that setup!
I’ve also been working on adding data to Mapzen Places through a web scraping project called All the Places. Mapzen Places is a dataset with hundreds of millions of “venues” or points of interest from around the world and a system to link them into a hierarchy of administrative boundaries. All the Places will scrape location data from websites and output GeoJSON that will then be matched with existing Mapzen Places entries to add details like phone number, opening hours, improved location, and more.
Q: You’re the founder of Open Addresses, correct? What’s the story behind how that effort began?
OpenAddresses began when I finished importing the buildings and addresses in Chicago. I was looking around for more data to import into OpenStreetMap while also dealing with the recently-formed Data Working Group’s import guidelines. I decided that taking the time to go through the import process for the hundreds of datasets I was finding wasn’t a good use of my time so I collected the sources into a spreadsheet so others could import them if they wanted.
At some point Nick Ingalls from Mapbox came along and helped me move this spreadsheet into GitHub along with a system to download and merge the data together. After lots of help by hundreds of contributors (like yourself – thanks!) we have over 500 million address points collected and the data is used by Mapzen and Mapbox’s geocoders to provide extremely accurate and up to date search results.
Q: I have to admit, Open Addresses is one of the Github repos I contribute the most to. I think of it kind of like a treasure hunt, finding county data sources for addresses, particularly in my home state. Did you ever think it would grow to over 100 contributors?
Absolutely not! It was a thrill to see the community grow so rapidly. I think the thing that really kicked it into gear was Mike Migurski’s addition of continuous integration builds that generated preview of changed sources in a pull request. It made it clear to the contributor what was getting added and what the data looked like. The instant gratification that those maps provided really made people excited to spend a bit more time looking for more data to add.
Q: I have to admit that is a really cool feature – almost like earning badges in an app or something. But also, I’ve done enough painstaking geocoding that if I’m helping someone, somewhere have an easier time at that, it seems a noble cause. Are there any other contributors expressing that kind of desire? Or, conversely, has there been any backlash from a source that didn’t know its data was being used?
I think there are two types of contributors: one like you who can see where this data ends up being used and is excited for where their contribution ends up downstream. The other is a “casual contributor” that somehow finds the repository and is able to quickly and easily add a data source. This doesn’t happen as much anymore because we cover so many places already, but they get quick confirmation that their contribution is helpful and we can more easily offer fixes if something is wrong.
We have received one or two requests to stop using a data source because we misinterpreted the licensing information, but the vast majority of requests we get are to point to a better source of data or to offer newer or more complete information directly to us. To help with both of these situations we’re working with Portland’s TriMet team to build a tool for data providers to submit data directly to us.
Q: You also were on the team behind CensusReporter. Census data – and interpreting it – has long been the bane of the digital geographer’s existence. I can’t believe it took the geo community that long to have something dedicated to making it easier to use. I refer people to the site all the time. What was the most challenging obstacle to overcome for that team?
It was a blast working with the small team of Ryan Pitts, Sara Schnadt, and Joe Germuska on Census Reporter. Joe had built similar systems before and wanted to make them better, so it was great to build on top of his vision and work with Sara and Ryan to build innovative interfaces on top of the data that I pulled together. The most challenging part of that project was building something that handled the depth of the data that Census Bureau provides while also making it approachable and searchable for reporters who didn’t have the time to completely understand how Census had organized the data. I think one of the most successful parts of Census Reporter is that it’s simple enough to use and update that it only takes a few hours every time Census releases new data twice a year to maintain. Otherwise it runs itself!
Q: You’re also on the Board for OpenStreetMap US. Other than, uh…spraying an occasional fire extinguisher on the mailing list, what are your duties there?
I’ve been the treasurer on the OpenStreetMap US board of directors for several years. That involves making sure bills get paid, taxes get filed, and coordinating sponsorships for State of the Map US. One of the trickiest parts of being active with OpenStreetMap US is figuring out how to spend our money in a responsible way that improves the community of mappers in the United States. We’re constantly looking for ways to do that and if anyone out there has suggestions, please let us know.
Q: Does any of this work compare to being on Obama Election 2012 campaign?
I built some of the strongest relationships I’ve ever had in the 8 months or so I was on the Obama 2012 campaign. Going through that experience made me re-organize my career priorities entirely: before 2012 I was concerned about how I would be able to move up the ladder into a challenging position while not transitioning into management. After 2012 I realized that an extremely important part of having a job is being emotionally happy and producing something that affected others in a positive way. Working with and learning from amazingly talented people also became very important to me, and I think both of these things had a huge effect on what I chose to do in my career afterwards.
Q: You recently moved back to Minnesota after several years away. What brought you back?
My wife and I grew up in the midwest, and went to college in the midwest, so when we spent 3 years in Virginia at her teaching job we felt out of our element. We definitely wanted to get back to the midwest as soon as possible and a job in Minneapolis opened up at the perfect time. She took it and we moved as soon as we could. It feels great to be back in our element now!
Q: You describe yourself as a “Map Nerd” on various social media outlets. Does that equate to being a geohipster?
When I think of a “nerd” I think of someone who enjoys obsessively figuring out a problem or topic. I call myself a map nerd because I enjoy all aspects of maps: everything from understanding where you are while wandering outside to finding the right command line incantation to reproject a shapefile. I’ve always spent way too much time on a computer and focusing on maps, map data, and the systems around it gives me somewhere to focus when I want to learn new things. I suppose focusing on these geo topics makes me a geohipster 🙂 .
As I write this article, I am packed and prepared for three days “off the grid”, and honestly I could use a break from the daily news. I recognize that I have a tremendous privilege in being able to afford such a break, and that others are not so lucky. Nothing brought this fact to life as much as the recent news that Eni Entchev was deported…despite living in the U.S. for 25 of his 27 years.
Atanas with his son, Eni.
Eni is the son of Atanas Entchev, and sometimes we refer to Atanas as “the OG”…as in, “Original Geohipster”. While we may be using “OG” in jest, let’s face it – without Atanas, “Geohipster” might only be a Twitter account. It probably wouldn’t be a website with over 100 interviews published since it started almost 4 years ago. And it most definitely wouldn’t be the small independent business partnership it is today.
I certainly know I wouldn’t have been able to meet and/or interview so many amazing people these last few years without Atanas’ ideas, support, and generosity. And so when I learned that Eni’s family had set up a funding drive to pay for legal fees and living expenses, I knew I had to act. Like many of you – our amazing colleagues in the geospatial community – I donated from my personal funds. But also, with support from the GeoHipster Advisory Board, I’ve pledged 25% of the revenue from our 2018 GeoHipster Calendar sales.
So, this holiday season, as many of us take some time to celebrate our good fortune with loved ones, I hope you’ll consider either donating directly or buying a calendar to help reunite the Entchev family. Sure, hanging a unique calendar with 13 different pages of “map art” on your wall might make you the talk of the office. But knowing that in some small way you’ve also helped out a friend in need? To me, that’s what the geospatial community is all about.
Emily Garding is a cartographer and data-wrangler for Friends of the Verde River in northern Arizona. She has a background in using GIS as a tool for conservation and management of natural resources, particularly wildlife and their habitats. She is also the founder of #gistribe, a supportive global community of geogeeks and their minions, who meet regularly on Twitter to talk about all the latest developments in geotechnology, and how they can use them to take over the world.
Q: Tell us about yourself. How did you get into mapping and/or GIS?
A: Right after college I went to work on a field crew researching Grizzly Bears on the Kootenai National Forest in Montana. We had a big clunky GPS roughly the size of a small European car that we had to haul around the woods with us so that we could GPS a point at the sites we surveyed. I wasn’t really that excited about it at first. But once I started plotting those points on a map back in the office, the veil began to lift. I started to see the vaguest implications of how someone with the right skills could explore this kind of data. I realized that these dots on a map could tell us about individual bears: their movements, their home range size, their relationships with other, what habitats they were using and when. After that, I was hooked.
Q: What kind of interesting projects are you working on lately?
A: Lately I’ve been creating mobile data collection apps for field crews we have working in remote areas. The challenge I’ve had is to create an app that can be used offline that has all the data the crews need when they’re in the backcountry, that allows them to collect data super efficiently in all kinds of weather, and before the battery runs out. Of course I also want something that allows me to easily sync and manage copious amounts of data. My mantra is that technology should make our lives easier, so I try to figure out how to make things as easy as possible for everyone. So far I’ve been using Collector for ArcGIS to create custom apps and that seems to work pretty well. I think that Collector is more geared toward online data collection, but it does have offline capabilities. One of the challenges I’m always faced with is how to make GIS work in remote areas where you don’t have modern day amenities such as Wi-Fi or cell reception.
Q: Your Twitter handle is @wildlifegisgirl. How does wildlife intersect with your interests in mapping?
A: The intersection of wildlife and GIS came to life for me when I was leading a field crew researching mountain lions at Grand Canyon National Park, while at the same time taking classes in GIS online. I started applying my new skills in GIS on the job right away. A few years into the project, we started collaring mountain lions. I didn’t have any technical support to help with formatting and managing the thousands of GPS points that were rolling in from those collars, so I learned how to manage the data myself, making maps, and analyzing the data. That’s when I started to get really interested in the spatial ecology aspect of wildlife management. Since then I’ve worked on a number of projects modeling wildlife habitats and identifying important wildlife areas, such as corridors, for conservation planning projects across the western U.S.
Q: I’m pretty sure you invented the hashtag #gistribe. Now it’s a weekly hashtag hangout. (Is that what we call it?) What inspired you to come up with that concept? Are you glad that it’s taken on a life of it’s own?
A: It’s true, I started the weekly #gistribe chat on Twitter in 2014. At the time, I was working remotely from a little cabin in the woods, which was pretty awesome, but I didn’t have any GIS peeps to bounce ideas off of, or go to for ideas if I got stuck. I’d noticed that GIS people who were using Twitter were really responsive. From time to time I would throw a GIS question out into the Twitterverse, and people I didn’t even know would answer it for me, or point me to a great resource. I started to think, “Hey, how great would it be if some of us geogeeks on Twitter were to engage in conversations on a regular basis?” We could really learn a lot from each other and become that supportive network of people with varying degrees of geospatial knowledge and interests that I’d been craving, and maybe others had, too. So I hosted the first #gistribe chat on a Wednesday afternoon about 3 and a half years ago and it’s been going ever since.
I’m really glad that there are so many people engaged in #gistribe, and that it’s ‘taken a life of its own.’ Right from the start, people would approach me with ideas about things they thought I should do as the defacto leader of #gistribe, you know things like “We should have a map contest!,” “We should have a blog!”, “We should host a google hangout!”, and more creative ideas about ways to bring the tribe together…and I would respond with, “Great idea! Would you want to take the lead on that?”
It has never been my intention to be ‘The Decider’ for #gistribe, I simply wanted to hold the space for it, to create the venue for people to connect, and I fully encourage them to take it wherever they want to from there. In the past year or so I’ve been pretty hands off. I still pop in on the chat from time to time, but I don’t plan the chats or shamelessly promote them the way I did initially. I like to think that my backing off has helped make #gistribe into more of a leaderless movement that is truly for the people, by the people.
Q: At a recent conference, I made the observation that people who are active on Twitter are good presenters. I noticed that you once lamented that two #gistribe members were presenting at the same time. Have you found the same thing?
A: Yes, I’ve found that people who are active in #gistribe are passionate about what they do, and that passion bleeds over into other areas of their lives — and into their presentations. In addition, #gistribe is a really supportive group. If you want to do something, and you mention it to #gistribe, they’ll support you in it however they can. They’ll review your portfolio, drink your koolaid, test your app, go to your talk, whatever they can do. So I was bummed that 2 #gistribe members were presenting at the same time at the same conference because it made it impossible for me to be there to support them both.
Q: I also noticed a lot of Minions in your Twitter feed. Any story there?
A: There is a definite Minion theme to #gistribe. I can’t take any credit for it. Brian Sullivan made a cute graphic with Minions trotting across the globe and called it “Mapions of #gistribe” (I’m pretty sure the ‘Mapion’ on the right is supposed to be Gretchen Peterson and the bad ass on the left is me, but that could just be wishful thinking).
Later when I was asked to give a lightning presentation about #gistribe to Maptime Boulder in 2015, I put Minions throughout the slides to add an air of playfulness and that may have helped cement the #gistribe-Minion link. #gistribe is not about being serious. You can be serious at work, or in other areas of your life, if you have to. But #gistribe is about having fun, being creative, and doing things you love. I think the minion theme helps to project that vibe.
Q: Open source or proprietary – any preference?
A: You know, Esri is what I use most, though I’m always tinkering with other software, tools, and apps especially if they have some functionality that will help me get the job done more efficiently.
I think it’s unfortunate for our generation that we’re limited to the two-party system. Hopefully future generations will be able to create some kind of interspecies mashup miracle-app that will allow us to do our work as seamlessly as those high-tech data wizards you see on murder mystery dramas who use invisible touch screens in the air to link traffic surveillance tapes, cell-phone GPS locations, and mugshots to maps in real time in order to figure out where the bad guys are hiding. (Sources conflict on whether or not this is what Dale Lutz was doing in last week’s article. –Ed)
Q: Do shapefiles harm wildlife more than GeoJSON?
A:Hold on a sec, my phone is ringing….Okay I’m back. That was the 90s calling and they want their shapefiles back.
Seriously though, any data format can be used for good or otherwise, depending on the user’s intention. I don’t think it means that one format is inherently good, or inherently bad. Wildlife get hit by vehicles on roads every day, whether the planners initially mapped out those proposed alignments using shapefiles or GeoJSON. It is my hope that more and more people will use GIS to find solutions to problems, such as mapping out areas where we can build wildlife underpasses or overpasses, making roads safer for wild animals and drivers alike. I don’t have a preference regarding what data format they use to do that, I just want it to happen.
Q: What do you think, might you be a geohipster?
A: I do tend to gravitate toward counter-culture ideas, and admittedly I thoroughly enjoy both obscure music and cheap domestic beer, but for me, ‘geohipster’ isn’t necessarily a noun, it’s more of a state of mind. I just go with the flow.
Q: Any last words of wisdom for our readership?
A: I think your readership is pretty well-informed and clearly way too free-thinking to seek out wisdom from others, but my free and open source life hack is to follow your heart, your intuition, and your own guidance. And don’t forget to have fun.
Someone somewhere, with a similar addiction to being busier than humanly possible, said that when a door opens, you should walk through it. In other words, when opportunity knocks, if you’re at all interested, you should pounce. I guess that’s what I was thinking about this time last year when Atanas Entchev reached out to the GeoHipster advisory board to see if anyone was interested in undertaking an effort to make GeoHipster a business independent from his previous ventures. I immediately said yes, and convened a hangout with several other board members to go over the options.
Fortunately for me, two other board members, Jonah Adkins and Amy Smith, also expressed interest in taking on new duties, and Atanas agreed to stay on once he knew he wouldn’t have to run the entire operation himself. It took a while for us to figure out the optimal formal business structure: a sole proprietorship LLC registered in Minnesota, which allows me to take over most operational and financial duties while the others focus on communications, editorial duties, and creative efforts. And yes, I fully realize and enjoy the irony that drips from the phrase, “CEO of GeoHipster, LLC”…and the fact that our fiscal year will start on Groundhog Day.
On the outside, however, very little will change about GeoHipster as a website and a collaborative effort. Our mission remains the same, we still rely on volunteer authors to help us generate content, and our editorial policy is unchanged. By undertaking this transition behind the scenes, we hope the result is a more sustainable GeoHipster, so we can continue interviewing interesting geohipsters from around the world, and our readers can learn from their experiences.
A few of my family members and colleagues have asked me why I decided to do this. Perhaps I was inspired by my good friend and fellow dad Justin Bell, who holds down a day job, plays in two bands, owns a side business, and teaches classes at night. I figure if he can make time for all those things plus family time, I can make time for something that I enjoy. And ever since that first interview I conducted with David Bitner, I’ve very much enjoyed my involvement with GeoHipster. It’s a major change of pace from my day job, a place where I can promote my tutorial on REST endpoints, and probably the only way I’ll ever be able to use a basin wrench as a metaphor.
Or maybe it’s all just a ploy to score another GeoHipster t-shirt. Might as well look stylish when walking through that door that just opened.
Mike Dolbow is a GIS Supervisor for the State of Minnesota and the operations manager of the Minnesota Geospatial Commons. He has served on the GeoHipster Advisory Board since 2014.
This past summer, I put a new set of stairs on the end of my deck. In the grand scheme of home improvement, it was a small job, but I’d never done anything like it before, so there was a lot of cursing, achy muscles, and extraneous trips to the hardware store. But that’s how I roll: chuck the manual and learn by doing. I’ve found that understanding your own learning style is a surprisingly underrated secret to success.
In a way, I learned that secret from my dad, who also made sure I had the skills to figure out how to get a job done with the tools available. He told cautionary tales about how my uncle would often dismiss a potential project because he thought “you need a special tool”, or it simply couldn’t be done. The way my dad saw it, that was a poor excuse for not doing the job. Sure, having a “special tool” would make it easier, maybe even faster. But if you had the will, you could find a way to get it done.
My uncle passed away years ago, but my dad and I still honor his memory with a running joke about “the special tool”. You see, now that he can afford some of those tools, he takes a sick pleasure in buying them for me. That way I don’t have any excuses when it comes to my own home improvement projects.
For example, the first Christmas I was a homeowner, he gave me a basin wrench. I looked at it and was like, “Dad, what the heck is this thing?” He replied, “Mike, that’s the special tool!” He proceeded to explain how important it would be in the upcoming faucet replacement jobs I had planned. And once I looked at the old, rusty supply-line nuts under the sinks of my 1915 St. Paul home, I knew he was right: the basin wrench would save me tons of time.
But if I hadn’t had it, I would have found a way.
Years later, he gave me his old carpenter’s square shown below. Could I have drawn that angle on the 2×4 without it? Sure. Did it save me time because I had it? Absolutely. And I’m sure there are also a bunch of hyper-specific tools that might have saved me time in adding those stairs. But if I had waited around to acquire every single special tool that would possibly aid in the process, I’d probably still be working on it now.
So, what does this mean in my day job at the intersection of IT and geospatial?
Well, if it’s not obvious by this point, I’m going to be wary of anyone who says they absolutely need software X,Y, or Z in order to get a job done. Listen, I’m going to tell you my requirements for a finished product. I’ll try to get you the tools you need to get there, but ultimately I don’t care how you get there, you have to figure it out.
With developers, I cringe if I hear them say stuff like, “I need a fully loaded Eclipse IDE with a local JBoss server and plugins for Git, Maven, Spring, and Hibernate pre-configured.” Well, for one, I barely know what some of those things are, but for the small web apps we build, I’m thinking you’re only going to need about half of them. Heck, if you really know what you’re doing, you ought to be able to write a decent app with Notepad++. But I simply can’t guarantee that you’re going to have the exact suite of tools you had at your last job, and you’re going to have to adjust.
On the geospatial side, I get concerned if someone says they need the full Esri stack to get anything done. “No, I don’t just need ArcGIS Desktop, I need the Advanced level. I also need an ArcGIS Server install with enterprise ArcSDE at 10.2 and an AGOL subscription.” Well, that adds up to some pretty hefty maintenance fees very quickly. If I just need a map of our office on our website, most of those tools are overkill.
I was looking at a lot of painful angle cuts for my floors, then my FIL was all like, “Say hello to my LIL FRIEND!” pic.twitter.com/E28tmlBCel
Ultimately, I guess I can’t blame people for wanting to work with the best tools available: whether you’re talking Esri, Microsoft, Oracle, Mapbox, or Google, there’s some amazing stuff to work with out there in the IT and spatial worlds. Having access to so many amazing tools is a tremendous modern luxury. And if you’ve had a tool before, I know it can be hard to go without it. But sometimes, your favorite “special tool” won’t be available, and I might not be in a position to change that, even if the reason is simply “bureaucracy”. So let’s make sure we know enough about the problem to fix it with whatever we have at hand. After all, we’ll never run out of problems to solve.
Besides, the best tool you’ll ever have available is the one you’ve been using since you were born: your brain. So let’s put it to work, get the job done, and learn something along the way.
Maybe next time my dad will give you the basin wrench.
Peter Batty is a co-founder and CTO of the geospatial division at Ubisense. He has worked in the geospatial industry for 29 years, and has served as CTO for two leading companies in the industry (and two of the world's top 200 software companies) -- Intergraph and Smallworld (now part of GE Energy). He served on the board of OSGeo from 2011 to 2013, and chaired the FOSS4G 2011 conference in Denver. He serves on the advisory board of Aero Glass.
Q: How did you get into GIS and/or mapping?
A: Totally by accident. I studied maths (as we say in England) at Oxford, then stayed on to do a Masters in “Computation”. I took a job at IBM, which was the dominant computer company in the world back then, in 1986. It was a bit like going to work for Microsoft in the 1990s or Google today, but distinctly less “hipster” and with more blue suits. On my first day they told me that they were introducing this new product from the US into the UK, and gave me the manuals and told me to learn about it. It was a product called GFIS, for Geo-Facilities Information System, a GIS focused on utilities and telecommunications applications. By the end of the first week I was the UK expert as I was the only one who had read the manuals, and I’ve been in that field ever since. GFIS ran on IBM mainframes and used specialized high-end graphics terminals which cost around £25,000 ($40,000). We’ve come a long way since then!
I found it a really interesting mix of challenges from a software design and development perspective — lots of interesting database problems, a very graphical focus obviously, which I find appealing, the challenge of designing systems that can be easily configured and customized, and more.
One thing I might mention from IBM days is that I was one of the main advocates in the industry back then for the notion that you should store all aspects of your geospatial data in a single database management system. This was the approach that IBM took, but it was uncommon in the industry at the time. The other main company pushing that approach was a Canadian outfit called GeoVision, led by Doug Seaborn. Esri’s product at the time was Arc/Info, the predecessor to ArcGIS, and it was so called as “Arc” handled the graphical / geographic aspects of the data, while “Info” stored the alphanumeric data. Pretty much all systems back then handled the graphical and alphanumeric aspects of the data separately. I wrote a paper called Exploiting Relational Database Technology in GIS, in 1990. In 1995 by chance I went to the launch of what is now Oracle Spatial, but was originally called Oracle MM (multi-media), at a conference in Vancouver. I chatted with the development manager and he said that they had a copy of my paper posted on the noticeboard in their office, and it had been a big influence on them. Which I thought was cool (though I’m firmly a PostGIS person these days)!
Q: So what did you do after IBM?
A: From IBM I went to work at Smallworld, who were a fairly early stage company at the time — I think I was employee number 30 or so, and after a year with them in the UK I was the first person to move to the US when we started the company there, and I’ve been in Denver ever since then (that was 1993). I imagine many GeoHipster readers may not have heard about Smallworld, but we revolutionized the GIS industry in the 1990s with a lot of ground-breaking ideas, and became the market leader in GIS for utilities and telecoms — you can read more in a blog post I wrote on the occasion of Smallworld’s 20th birthday.
GE bought Smallworld in 2000 and as with many acquisitions, it was a big culture change, especially for for those of us on the management team. Four of us left to form a company called Ten Sails, which evolved into what is Ubisense today (more of that shortly). In 2005 I took a detour to spend a couple of years as CTO at Intergraph, who were the second largest GIS company at the time, with revenues of around $700m. I had a good experience there working with lots of great people, but in 2007 I decided I wanted to get back to being more hands on with technology and left to start my own venture called Spatial Networking, where I did a variety of interesting consulting projects and also built an app involving social networking and future location called whereyougonnabe. I haven’t looked at this in ages, but I just found that our original web site is still out there, and there are a couple more videos here. I still think it was a cool idea, and don’t think anyone has really implemented what we came up with. Dopplr was the closest thing, but they didn’t have a lot of the geospatial features that we did, and they were acquired by Nokia and subsequently disappeared. I occasionally think about revisiting this idea! But anyway, we didn’t get the traction we hoped for with it, and in 2010 I decided to rejoin Ubisense.
Q: So you went back to Ubisense as CTO of the Geospatial Division. What are some of the more interesting projects you’ve been working on lately?
A: Well one half of Ubisense does RTLS (Real Time Location System) applications, using our precision indoor location tracking technology to power various applications, mainly focused on the manufacturing space. It’s a very cool technology — and I’ve come to learn that indoor location tracking is a surprisingly hard problem to solve!
The other half of the company is the geospatial division, which is where I work. I led a skunkworks project in 2010 to build a product called myWorld, which has really taken off over the past few years. It’s a web and mobile geospatial platform focused on large utilities and telecom companies, the same space I worked in with previous companies. It’s built on open source components — PostGIS, GeoServer and Leaflet being the main ones. Our mantra is “Simple, Smart, Fast” — it’s targeted at the 95% of people in these large companies who aren’t GIS people but can get a lot of value from a really simple Google Maps style interface onto their enterprise data. We’ve had a great response from customers. In fact one of them, one of the largest cable companies in the US, does a satisfaction survey of their end users every time they roll out a new IT system, and myWorld got the highest rating of any application in the 20 years they’ve been doing this, so that was very gratifying! We’ve been doing a lot of work with offline systems for use in the field, syncing data from PostGIS to SpatiaLite — since you still can’t guarantee having a wireless data connection 100% of the time, our customers really need the ability to work without a network connection. We have the core offline capabilities rolled out in some large implementations, and now we’re working on some interesting ideas for hybrid online-offline systems that can really simplify deployment and administration compared to traditional offline systems. We’ve also been building a number of specific applications to address particular business processes, like damage assessment, inspection and maintenance, and outage analysis.
One thing that differentiates us from the traditional GIS vendors is our focus on simplicity — it’s deceptively hard to make useful enterprise applications that really are simple and intuitive for end users. And another is that we are GIS-agnostic — at one of our large utility customers, we integrate with back end systems from GE Smallworld, Intergraph and Esri, and provide a common front end to all of them. The big players tend to work well with their own systems but less well with their competitors.
So it’s been fun. I feel we’re well on our way to disrupting the enterprise geospatial market in large utilities and communications companies, which hasn’t really happened since we did that with Smallworld twenty years ago.
Q: You presented your Geospatial Revolution talk to Minnesota’s GIS/LIS Consortium Conference in 2009. This was an influential talk for me and many of my colleagues here. It was the first time I had heard of the concept of “neogeographers” – did you coin that term?
A: No, it’s not my term, it was quite a widely used term in the industry at the time. At the time I would have said that Andrew Turner coined it — he literally wrote the book on neogeography, which was published by O’Reilly in 2006. However, I asked him if he came up with the term, during this interesting panel discussion at the GITA conference in 2010, and he said no, it originated in 1912 as a term to contrast with paleogeography. He credits Di-Ann Eisnor, then with Platial but more recently with Waze, as coining the recent usage of the term, though Wikipedia attributes Randall Szott with being the first to use it in the contemporary sense.
Anyway, it definitely wasn’t my term, and to be honest it’s not a term I really like, it was just the most widely used label at the time to describe the newer generation of systems that were disrupting the geospatial industry.
Q: What compelled you at the time to compare “paleo” or “neo” geographers?
A: Before I answer that, let me just digress a bit more on the terminology. One of the reasons I don’t like the term neogeography is that I don’t regard myself, nor most of the people doing interesting geospatial applications these days, as any kind of geographer. I’ve never studied geography at all, I’m a software developer and it happens that most of the applications I’ve worked on involve some aspect of location data or maps, but they involve a lot of other things too. Paul Ramsey uses the term “spatial IT”, which I like much better, though it still overemphasizes the spatial part in a way.
An analogy I like to use is that we don’t use the term “numerical information system” just because an application contains numeric data. We don’t have conferences on NIS. It doesn’t make you a mathematician because you develop an application that uses numbers.
Increasingly now, geospatial data is just another datatype, a map is just another aspect of a user interface. This opens up both the development and usage of geospatial applications to a massively broader audience, which is the real significance of the “neogeography” change or whatever you want to call it, the label doesn’t matter. Traditional GIS is a tiny portion of the geospatial ecosystem these days, I really dislike the whole attitude that GIS is this specialized sacred thing, and that you need to be a trained “GIS Professional” to do anything with geospatial data. Nonsense!
Q: Did the word “hipster” ever enter into your mind when considering either camp of geographer? As a Brit living in America, do you have a different take on hipsters?
A: Um, no! Was hipster a thing in 2009? And like I said, it wasn’t my term, I was just using terms that were prevalent at the time.
I have no claim or aspiration to be a hipster. And I’m not nearly as old as Steven Feldman so don’t qualify as a geohippy I don’t think.
Am I a GeoHipster? I had to consult your poll to decide on that, and according to that the joint leading characteristic of a GeoHipster is that they never refer to themselves as one, so it seems as though the only possible answer to give is no, whether I am one or not. But on your other top characteristics I score pretty highly: geoJSON is often the answer, I fired up ogr2ogr just yesterday to convert a shapefile into a 21st century format (geoJSON, naturally), and I have written my own code to roll map tiles (from Smallworld). I don’t think PostGIS is too mainstream though, I think PostGIS is fantastic. We’ve built myWorld on it and it has worked exceptionally well in some very large and challenging enterprise applications. I’d like to think we’ve been doing our bit to make PostGIS more mainstream — we have managed to get it installed in a number of large utilities and telecom companies where Oracle is the dominant database platform. With most of the customers that I work with, PostGIS would be regarded as very GeoHipster, I think. So maybe I at least score half a point there.
Another one of your poll answers was: “You call him Jack and still hate his company”. Well yes, obviously! I say that rather tongue in cheek, I’m not really a hating person, and I have plenty of friends at Esri. But I have spent my whole career competing against Jack, Esri has always been the “dark side” for me and the companies I’ve worked at. I have been in the geospatial industry for 29 years and have never used ArcGIS , does that qualify me for any sort of special GeoHipster award? Though having said that, we do use the Esri Leaflet plugin in myWorld now to enable integration with ArcGIS Server and ArcGIS Online, and quite a few Esri customers are using myWorld. Good interoperability with Esri is a strong focus for us at the moment.
So anyway, you be the judge on the GeoHipster front. I think maybe I’ve talked myself into getting a GeoHipster T-shirt.
Q: You’ve long been big on usability testing, even pointing out with self-deprecating humor how user testing showed a fatal flaw in one of your initial user interfaces. Do you have any more stories about how usability testing has improved your projects?
A: Yes, I am a huge fan of simple usability testing, as outlined in the book “Don’t make me think” — this is a short read and I highly recommend it to anyone involved in software design or development. I did a 5-minute Ignite talk on the same topic which you can see here. Usability has been absolutely fundamental to the work we’ve been doing with myWorld for the past five years, to make complex geospatial enterprise data accessible to the average person with little or no training. We believe that the growth in enterprise geospatial applications is all about serving the 95% of people in our customer organizations who don’t know what a GIS is and shouldn’t need to know.
Q: Influenced by some of your usability notes, I once held on to the belief that it was important to signal to users that something in a web map was “clickable” by changing the mouse cursor to a pointer. But now, with touch screens eliminating the cursor, this seems much less important. Has this shift been revealed in your usability testing? And if so, is there a new “touch screen friendly” way to tell the user that something is “clickable”?
A: Your first example is an interesting one actually. In myWorld we are typically dealing with very dense utility maps with many items on the screen. We can easily have several thousand selectable features on the screen at a time. These are typically pre-rendered into raster tiles for high drawing performance, which works very well. But of course that doesn’t give you sufficient information to change the mouse cursor when you are over something that is selectable. We could create UTFgrids to do this, but that’s a lot of extra work with our data volumes, and the density of clickable data on the screen is so great that arguably it doesn’t add much value and could impact performance — you would be trying to rapidly change the cursor all the time as it moved over the map. So in our web application we elected to use a fixed “pointing finger” icon instead of a “panning hand” icon over our map, to give users a clue that they can click anywhere on the map. Depending on where they click, they could get no features or multiple features. But we’ve found that works just fine with a wide range of users who are not technical and have had minimal or no training on the system. They also find panning intuitive even though we the icon we use is different.
Of course on a tablet or phone there is no cursor icon, and users still find it very intuitive and realize that they can drag to pan, click to select or pinch to zoom. So in this particular example I think it’s the case that you don’t really need the feedback of a changing cursor for those operations to be obvious and intuitive.
In the more general case, as web applications or native apps based on them are used more and more on touch devices, I think it’s important to design your application so that it doesn’t need mouseover behavior, which in general is very doable. There are quite a few specific suggestions if you google around, for example this discussion on Stack Exchange.
Q: Is there anything else you’d like to share with the GeoHipster readers?
A: I guess one other topic of the moment that we haven’t touched on is vector tiles. There’s lots of interesting work going on in this area at the moment. I do find it ironic though that when I started doing GIS in the 1980s, most systems were based on tiled vector files — systems were designed that way to get over performance constraints. A huge focus in the industry was getting away from tiles to “continuous” vector based systems — having to split line and polygon features into multiple pieces to fit into different tiles caused all sorts of problems, especially for data editing and analysis. All these problems are exactly the same with vector tiles. So people have laughed at me for saying this, but I strongly believe that vector tiles are not “the future of web mapping” which is the message that I hear from a number of people at the moment. Yes they are interesting and you can do some cool things with them, but they have significant drawbacks too. I believe they’ll be a short term transitory phase, and the real winner of the next iteration will be whoever figures out how to handle a continuous non-tiled vector model in the browser, efficiently loading and unloading features as needed.
I also think that in all the excitement over vector tiles, a lot of people underestimate the strengths of good old raster tiles. For the sort of applications that we do, with dense vector maps and very complex display styles, pre-rendered raster tiles have huge advantages in terms of performance, scalability and portability — the ability to work well on low-end devices, and look the same in all environments, etc. I think there’s a good chance that raster tiles will outlive vector tiles.
Q: Any final words?
A: If you’re not using open source as part of your geospatial applications, you should really take a look at what’s out there. After spending 20 odd years working in the closed source geospatial world, I’ve been really impressed over the last eight years or so both with the innovation going on in the open source world, and with how well the products we’ve been using in our solutions have held up in very large enterprise projects.
Oh, and one more last thing: Mapwheel. I think all geohipsters should have a mapwheel!